Curse

Fril Estelin · Oct 19, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

The forgiving attitude lots of players give game companies is the source of the problem.

I'd say that the lack of perspective is also the cause of great trouble. You can compare one campaign or EN in terms of price to buying, say, half life 2 episode 2 (not an accurate comparison but you get the idea). How often is this latter game updated? How often do you get FREE new content for this game? As Vinraith said, Anet is providing an exceptional level of support, given that their business model is nothing like, say, WoW's monthly fees. (Anet could easily go for a different model and make more money, but yet they're sticking to their principles)

I think that the support for GW is so good, that people completely got carried away and forgot how good it is, wanting more all the time, expecting more every day. Of course some people are more PvE, some more PvP, some more role-playing, some more most-titles-best-weapons-most-armors, etc. but in the end we all have potential access to a vast amount of fun stuff with no monthly fee!

Sleeper Service · Oct 19, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I'd say that the lack of perspective is also the cause of great trouble. You can compare one campaign or EN in terms of price to buying, say, half life 2 episode 2 (not an accurate comparison but you get the idea). How often is this latter game updated? How often do you get FREE new content for this game? As Vinraith said, Anet is providing an exceptional level of support, given that their business model is nothing like, say, WoW's monthly fees. (Anet could easily go for a different model and make more money, but yet they're sticking to their principles)

I think that the support for GW is so good, that people completely got carried away and forgot how good it is, wanting more all the time, expecting more every day. Of course some people are more PvE, some more PvP, some more role-playing, some more most-titles-best-weapons-most-armors, etc. but in the end we all have potential access to a vast amount of fun stuff with no monthly fee!

no, i compare GW to CS and CS S.

how many times does that get updated? and is it free-to-play?

some people may demand too much yes, but game support is nothing new.

Fril Estelin · Oct 19, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

no, i compare GW to CS and CS S.

how many times does that get updated? and is it free-to-play?

Does it get several Holiday events a year? New significant content each year? What about these monthly updated bringing us new commands (minor features)? In the worst case, it can't be worse than CS(S) right? Anyway, it's pointless to start a comparison, as there are so many sides to it. (not trying to escape the debate here, but I know from experience than the "support for this is better than for that" is not as simple as it seems)

Quote:

some people may demand too much yes, but game support is nothing new.

Well the experience of support for MMO is different than for non-MMO. I'm not saying that the nature has changed, simply its expression in the Internet world. It's a bit like spam, spam is nothing new, but the net has transformed it into a new form (even a business).

Online, people are expecting fast response (and sometimes loose the perspective, they become mad or speculate simply because there's no immediate response). In a "free" (as in almost-free, no-monthly-fee) game, people are expecting their point of view to be considered in the hundreds of thousands of voices of players who got the game (for the majority because it was almost-free).

If only people could take an "electronic" deep breath

Lord Sojar · Oct 19, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Anet does listen, they really do, but when was the last time ALL GW players agreed on any one thing??

They are doing there best, and the update to the Hero/Dungeon Books was a great means of wiping the grind for armor out of GW.

Now we have a reason to redo the quests/dungeons and you don't have to do them on hard mode if thats more challange than your up for. The normal mode books will bost your titles fast and are very easy to fill up.

Now if only they had a fix to the Sunspear/Lightbringer title grind, not that its terribly hard, but you tend to have to farm the same maps for the same foes so much its sickening after the 20th or so run...

Indeed, perhaps a quest book for Lightbringer and Sunspear? Code is already in place, just change variables and add to existing NPCs. Whispers informant and maybe princes of vabbi or some such npc.

Master Sword Keeper · Oct 19, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Yea most points agreed in Concession. I am pretty disgusted with the reskinning of Vanguard armour for a Luxon KNock-off. Someone decided to Half/ass that. Hmm not going to go down well with players and designers alike. Anet should of at least took a look at the Fan/Art forum.

As a employee of one of the biggest International Australian/American Combined companies. I've been able to create graphics and models in very high res. I should at least think the American and Euro counter parts should be able to create something half-decent instead of gettin bored and leavin nothin to the imagination..

Anyway... Whoever said "paragons" are a dyin profession...Well let's see. They have an Elite that lasts for 2seconds....hmm and oh lets see a defensive shout that uses 15nrgy and only lasts for about 9seconds. To addition onto that. I've divised to contact ArenaNet about recent Video and Audio issues. As well as Connectivity and Security Concerns.

So there will be a few more changes yet.

Game's gettin better. Just need Farming to go back to what it used to be, (No monsters runnin away) That was the biggest nerf i've ever seen. So fix that and more people will come back. mmm more server activity...Looks promising.

Okay peace all.

Karyuu · Oct 19, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I like the Vanguard armor :] First set in GWEN that I got. Go figure.

Vinraith · Oct 19, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Indeed, perhaps a quest book for Lightbringer and Sunspear? Code is already in place, just change variables and add to existing NPCs. Whispers informant and maybe princes of vabbi or some such npc.

Drop that in Sardelac and I'll cheerfully sign it. What'd be really great is if it was tied to the non-main plot quests, thus incentivizing side questing.

Gigashadow · Oct 19, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

Just need Farming to go back to what it used to be, (No monsters runnin away) That was the biggest nerf i've ever seen. So fix that and more people will come back.

Doesn't anybody enjoy a challenge any more, or does everything have to be a mindless loot pinata now?

NotAgOat · Oct 19, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

I'm coming a bit late to the discussion, but I agree wholeheartedly. I remember during WPE-Beta the GW community was very friendly. PUGing was one of the greatest parts of GW. Now its all about finding 1 other person and grabbing 6 heroes and heading out. I also agree with the grind, grind has been discussed a billion times. Anet will not remove grind, they simply wont do it. It's very rare to find a company that will change/remove huge elements of a game that they made. So whats the point of even posting then? Well hopefully they will learn for future products but that probably wont happen. So whats the real reason for posting? There isn't one besides just venting anger.

EPO Bot · Oct 19, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

This game aint got grind, THIS is what a classic grinding game is all about:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/come...rst-mmorpg.php

Redfeather1975 · Oct 19, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

This game aint got grind, THIS is what a classic grinding game is all about:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/come...rst-mmorpg.php

That was good. I felt sorry for the stickman though.

Ivan Aidrann · Oct 19, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

If only there was time to explain each and everything that went wrong with GW. See this post as a complaint, or see it as it was intended to be, and that is to show what happens when the focus from the game shifts from a to z.

Compliments to Rahja on this great thread... though I must say and I'm certain many people would agree, he mentioned not even half of the problems that actually exist in gw, most likely due to the fact that he only wanted to point out the most important problems (and even that took essay of nearly 2,000 words to write)

I just feel like adding what I think is one of my main concerns. The concern being that really no-one cares about the story of gw anymore. I only started playing gw about 2 weeks after the release of factions, but man, i followed the storyline like i was living it myself. I just couldnt wait for the next cinematic or the next plot twist, because it was awesome. I got goosebumps when Shiro killed Master Togo, as I'm sure many players got goosebumps when they first saw they would have to battle an undead Rurik. It was like watching a movie which lasted hours and hours (horrible voice acting though, but thats not the point

), always exciting and keeping you on your toes. Players werent rushing through the game just so they could get an ammy or access hm, which later came to be the case. Players skipping cut scenes were in the minority.

This game has come to be a one-dimensional grind. Getting max titles and getting rich is really all the game is about now, with the odd 1 or 2 players just going out to have fun, experiencing the game as im sure it was originally intended to be. And truth be told no-one really cares what title you have, youll get an applause from someone every now and then because they dont know all it took was hours and hours of repetitive gameplay from your side.

I remember what a great feeling it was on becoming only a canthan explorer, my first title achieved and it meant something to me. Later achieving canthan protector and gmc was like a gw dream come true, i could now go out and enjoy my life in the world of cantha and tyria. Now when i get a max title i smile briefly then continue to the next repetitive action needed to complete something utterly worthless. I now use my character wearing either no title or 'Slayer of All' since it sounds really awesome

.

My other main concern is the attribute and interchangeable 2ndary profession system, where after an update you could change ur 2ndary prof within a second with a click of a button, which is where cookie-cutting came in place, which was probably the worst and most annoying thing ever, second only to loot scaling. There is now absolutely no strategizing according to what the players builds are focused on, before a mission or a difficult quest (which hardly ever happens due to many reasons including players never playing together anymore). Though this cookie-cutting subject can be explained to death, i will not since anyone who knows anything, knows what a major mess-up it is.

I assume by this time you have figured out the point im making, if not, this is it...

This is no longer a rpg based on dedication (and by dedication i dont mean endless grinding) and skill, its a grinding bore-fest with hardly any worth as an Role-playing game

Red Sonya · Oct 19, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

I didn't read every single post but I got the jist of them as well as the OP's meaning. But, what everyone has to realize is that even as the old leave a new generation of players that enjoy grind and other things about GW since Nightfall will take their places. The overall market shows that GRIND is popular. The non-grinders had their game for awhile, but, Anet/NCsoft is moving in the direction to bring in more of the grind type players and those that enjoy the carrot in front of their faces, only this time without a monthly fee. There's more MONEY in the grind mmo/mmorpg and that's where these people who are building the game and those that have stock in the game want it to go. Without totally making it into a WoW or EQ or the rest. There's still going to be simple fun in GW2 I have no doubt, but, there's also going to be more of what you've seen in Nightfall and now GWEN I have no doubt. With the mention of higher levels and perhaps no cap at all, well you just have to accept it's not going to be like GW1. Even if the vets don't buy into GW2, others will to replace them. This has been this way for a long time now, out with the old and in with the new. You either accept it or move on these people are in the business to make money not care about every tom richard or harry and their whinning because of it. There's not enough of you to make that much difference.

t h i n e eyes b l e e d · Oct 19, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

For me guild wars WAS a tactical MMO that I NEEDED tactics to survive such as different skill combinations but now that almost everything is nerfed I don't feel that same kind of tactical needs. When nightfall came out I tought that not that little grind can hurt the game but then when the freaking hard mode came out I just realized that this is where the grinding starts. I all so DID like to farm but I just don't feel like farming anymoe cause of loot scaling. So yes the doomsday of guild wars IS NEAR!

Gli · Oct 19, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Aidrann

If only there was time to explain each and everything that went wrong with GW. See this post as a complaint, or see it as it was intended to be, and that is to show what happens when the focus from the game shifts from a to z.

Compliments to Rahja on this great thread... though I must say and I'm certain many people would agree, he mentioned not even half of the problems that actually exist in gw, most likely due to the fact that he only wanted to point out the most important problems (and even that took essay of nearly 2,000 words to write)

I just feel like adding what I think is one of my main concerns. The concern being that really no-one cares about the story of gw anymore. I only started playing gw about 2 weeks after the release of factions, but man, i followed the storyline like i was living it myself. I just couldnt wait for the next cinematic or the next plot twist, because it was awesome. I got goosebumps when Shiro killed Master Togo, as I'm sure many players got goosebumps when they first saw they would have to battle an undead Rurik. It was like watching a movie which lasted hours and hours (horrible voice acting though, but thats not the point

), always exciting and keeping you on your toes. Players werent rushing through the game just so they could get an ammy or access hm, which later came to be the case. Players skipping cut scenes were in the minority.

This game has come to be a one-dimensional grind. Getting max titles and getting rich is really all the game is about now, with the odd 1 or 2 players just going out to have fun, experiencing the game as im sure it was originally intended to be. And truth be told no-one really cares what title you have, youll get an applause from someone every now and then because they dont know all it took was hours and hours of repetitive gameplay from your side.

I remember what a great feeling it was on becoming only a canthan explorer, my first title achieved and it meant something to me. Later achieving canthan protector and gmc was like a gw dream come true, i could now go out and enjoy my life in the world of cantha and tyria. Now when i get a max title i smile briefly then continue to the next repetitive action needed to complete something utterly worthless. I now use my character wearing either no title or 'Slayer of All' since it sounds really awesome

.

My other main concern is the attribute and interchangeable 2ndary profession system, where after an update you could change ur 2ndary prof within a second with a click of a button, which is where cookie-cutting came in place, which was probably the worst and most annoying thing ever, second only to loot scaling. There is now absolutely no strategizing according to what the players builds are focused on, before a mission or a difficult quest (which hardly ever happens due to many reasons including players never playing together anymore). Though this cookie-cutting subject can be explained to death, i will not since anyone who knows anything, knows what a major mess-up it is.

I assume by this time you have figured out the point im making, if not, this is it...

This is no longer a rpg based on dedication (and by dedication i dont mean endless grinding) and skill, its a grinding bore-fest with hardly any worth as an Role-playing game

So what you're saying is, the game is now suddenly worthless crap because we ourselves started playing it differently? Uhh... sure.

Ivan Aidrann · Oct 19, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

So what you're saying is, the game is now suddenly worthless crap because we ourselves started playing it differently? Uhh... sure.

Unfortunately, thats only half of it. ANet changed a few things, we start 'playing differently' (as Gli stated it), Anet changed a few other things to adapt to our new 'style'... repeat

Now what we have is no longer an rpg, it's an endless cycle of repetitive actions with absolutely no value or meaning except pleasing ourselves thinking that other people care.

Im not saying this game isnt fun anymore, its just not a proper rpg anymore as it was meant to be.

Fril Estelin · Oct 19, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Aidrann

Now what we have is no longer an rpg, it's an endless cycle of repetitive actions with absolutely no value or meaning except pleasing ourselves thinking that other people care.

Im not saying this game isnt fun anymore, its just not a proper rpg anymore as it was meant to be.

I was quite moved by your first post here, and must admit it made a stonger point that the one before on this thread. But here I have to say that I disagree, you can still enjoy GW:EN as an rpg, even if leavind the grind means you won't have access to everything. I found the 3-arcs story of GW:EN very entertaining, from a purely RPG point of view (btw, having played real-life RPGs, I know how different they can be, meaning that they can be VERY different even if they share the "love of the story"). I was surprised last week on the way to a quest to discover by surprise Killroooooyyyyyyyyyy

.

I can easily imagine how the game has changed for you (which makes me regret I wasn't in an RPG guild or haven't PUGed enough with "right" guys), but sometimes one keep too melancholic and I sometimes feel that the old players (I mean that in the most respectable sense) strongly reject that Anet introduced a new element to the game. A bit like saying "this game has stopped being pure, we want our game back". Honestly, I'd personaly support your opinion, GW is at its best when the story is helped by the game mechanics. But I also see from my experience that if you forget about the part of the game that is about grind, the game still has a lot to show. The art is still truly amazing (I'm so much looking forward to the bonus pack for that matter), there's a story tying a lot of stuff in the GW universe (though it seems short).

elektra_lucia · Oct 19, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

no, i compare GW to CS and CS S.

how many times does that get updated? and is it free-to-play?

some people may demand too much yes, but game support is nothing new.

CS was a mod. The game was good to begin with, most FPS games get updates to just get rid of a few bugs. The game doesn't promise updates. I think GW does.

Only thing CS needs now is cheat protection, as for CS: S. Eh, it was buggy as hell but cs: s pro-mod is coming out.

MrSlayer · Oct 19, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Ok so after some time to think, and recent updates I have seriously reversed my opinion on this.

Now you can complete the game normally (EotN) and will be given a full hero hand book which can be traded for 20,000 points which will get you any armour you want. No more grind needed. Awesome and a great update on Anets behalf.

As for armour, yeah OK so there are reskins. But look at some of them; they are awesome. I spend alot of time scoffing at warrior armour reskins because yes, they are all undoubtedly pathetic (bar Silver Eagle) but all the others are pretty awesome. Norn in particular is a very well done reskin (in some cases, almost impossible to find the original) and time and effort at least has been put in.

I am starting to get sick of whiners. Anet have removed the NEED to grind, and yet people continue to complain about "We have to grind to get the armour we don't even like". Why not just go play something ELSE if you're sick of it? I'm sure WoW has less of a grind getting to level 80 :}

If you want a Phoenix, yes you have to grind titles. But as Gaile said, "if everyone had one, it wouldn't be special" (although she was referring to Ferrari's and Diamonds if I remember correctly).

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Bryant Again · Oct 19, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlayer

Norn in particular is a very well done reskin (in some cases, almost impossible to find the original) and time and effort at least has been put in.

Norn is not a reskin, it just looks very similar to Ascalon armor.

People say the same with Silver Eagle, but it too has a similar shape to Luxon Warrior armor.